Hey guys, time for another group topic, because why not!?
As you can probably tell, I want to know what you think the best and worst arcs of the comic as a whole are. Don't limit yourself to Flynn, or Penders, or Bollers, take them as a whole. Hey, maybe your favourite is a Bollers story! Go right ahead and say it.
So, my favourite and least favourite.
Favourite is hard, because nothing in the comic really wows me... except, perhaps, issue 125. I also think that, of Flynn's work, Knuxerjak and Bold New Moebius are decent, though they do have their down sides (Scourge, FINO, and the latter story's ending.)
The weakest, on the other hand, basically everythingin the 170s, and everything since 200 stand out to me, and, before Flynn, the awful love triangles with Mina and Fiona were just unnecessary and dull. Like Mina herself, I guess.
So, what's your take?
Good:
Any story that has a good story or plot. My personal favorite being #66 and #71.
Bad:
Any story where Mina Mongoose is a plot device. Possibly the BIGGEST Mary Sue next to Princess Elise. It was obvious from the get go. Her stories were good, but not exactly my cup of tea after re-reading them and seeing Boller's bias in the SonicxSally dynamic.
Any story involving Eggman being a Villain Sue. Seriously, the guys needs to get the beatdown that he rightfully deserves.
Any story where Sonic is even more of a jerk than he usually is. Although Sonic STC outmatches him in this department, seeing Archie Sonic being close to his dickish counterpart is just sad. I don't have any other word for it.
Any story where raci-I mean "specieism" is a sub-plot. I'm looking at the Echidnas and the Battle Bird Armada for this. Tails did not deserve that treatment from that feather-brained bigot just because he could fly and wasn't a bird.
Any story where all of the characters are taking; as Norman Osborn once stated, "stupid-pills" and keep passing the idiot ball to one another.
Any story involving Monkey Khan, with the exception of his first appearance. I have no idea why Flynn made him Sally's rebound guy.
Scourge. 'Nuff said.
Any story that is just gosh darn terrible. Period!
Any story that has a good story or plot. My personal favorite being #66 and #71.
Bad:
Any story where Mina Mongoose is a plot device. Possibly the BIGGEST Mary Sue next to Princess Elise. It was obvious from the get go. Her stories were good, but not exactly my cup of tea after re-reading them and seeing Boller's bias in the SonicxSally dynamic.
Any story involving Eggman being a Villain Sue. Seriously, the guys needs to get the beatdown that he rightfully deserves.
Any story where Sonic is even more of a jerk than he usually is. Although Sonic STC outmatches him in this department, seeing Archie Sonic being close to his dickish counterpart is just sad. I don't have any other word for it.
Any story where raci-I mean "specieism" is a sub-plot. I'm looking at the Echidnas and the Battle Bird Armada for this. Tails did not deserve that treatment from that feather-brained bigot just because he could fly and wasn't a bird.
Any story where all of the characters are taking; as Norman Osborn once stated, "stupid-pills" and keep passing the idiot ball to one another.
Any story involving Monkey Khan, with the exception of his first appearance. I have no idea why Flynn made him Sally's rebound guy.
Scourge. 'Nuff said.
Any story that is just gosh darn terrible. Period!
I got my opinions
Best: Secret Freedom - I really like the interactions with the team, especially Shard.
Worst: 150-151 - Worst milestone issue ever.
Disappointing: Mecha Sally - I like the Arc, although I think it took to long and it never got a conclusion (thanks to the lawsuit of course)
Best: Secret Freedom - I really like the interactions with the team, especially Shard.
Worst: 150-151 - Worst milestone issue ever.
Disappointing: Mecha Sally - I like the Arc, although I think it took to long and it never got a conclusion (thanks to the lawsuit of course)
I can't really say there is a best. But the worst? Probably Mecha Sally. The so-called epic emotional sob story written by godly genius writer Ian Flynn that was in no way bad before the lawsuit because Flynn is just that great.
Oh I can do this.
Best: Iron Domoinon, Bold New Moebius, Mecha Sally, Enerjak: Reborn, Eggman Empire, Thicker than Water, Babylon Rising, Scourge: Lockdown, Fractured Mirror and Secret Freedom
Worst: Endgame, Tossed in Space, 150-151, Shadow Fall, Pirate Plunder Panic, Worlds Collide and 25 Years Later
Would you like to hear why I say those are the best and worst?
Best: Iron Domoinon, Bold New Moebius, Mecha Sally, Enerjak: Reborn, Eggman Empire, Thicker than Water, Babylon Rising, Scourge: Lockdown, Fractured Mirror and Secret Freedom
Worst: Endgame, Tossed in Space, 150-151, Shadow Fall, Pirate Plunder Panic, Worlds Collide and 25 Years Later
Would you like to hear why I say those are the best and worst?
Iron Dominion and Lockdown are going to controversial, as is Eggman Empire (Though many of the issues with that are because of SEGA). Mecha Sally's going to get you laughed out of 'town', since most of our members are here because of that very story.
I'd like explanations for Shadow Fall and Mecha Sally. THe others are fine.
I'd like explanations for Shadow Fall and Mecha Sally. THe others are fine.
Very well then:
Iron Dominion: It was a nice long story that had a good pace and some great history, mythology, world-building and character development, strong character moments, great artwork and some fun action scenes. I also liked how it changed the status quo for a time. Yeah it has problems like Espio's heel-turn being wasted and that Khan/Tails scene from 209 being a waste of time but I sincerely believe this is Ian Flynn and indeed Archie Sonic's BEST story ever.
Bold New Moebius: This was a fun story with some good depth, back story and build-up as well as some neat artwork and cool moments. The ending marred it greatly though.
Mecha Sally: This is an arc with everything I love in a story. Dark moments, heartfelt moments, sad moments, awesome moments and the pace was very well-done with a mix of fast and slow moments as well as many interesting things happening. The artwork is sensational for the most part too.
Enerjak Reborn: This arc is the reason why I love Dr. Finitevus. It also has some great artwork, action scenes, heartfelt moments, funny moments and got rid of those goddamn dingoes (I hated them) for good and changed the status quo in some ways too.
Thicker Than Water: Bunnie had some neat character moments in this arc and a nice bit of family revelation and back story for her. The depth of the arc is deeper than the very oil of the Oil Ocean Refinery and Ben Bates's artwork is simply gorgeous. The action scenes are great and of course, the always classic line "Oh dear! I've been thrown with excessive force!"
Babylon Rising: This arc actually made me think the unthinkable...the Babylon Rogues are INTERESTING. It was nice to see how they came together and we get some nice mythology and character moments as well as fantastic artwork and Sonic being tough and bitter like he should be given the shit he's gone through. Sullied only by the Battle Lord being overpowered. Seriously, how the fuck can he beat Naugus in a fight?!?!
Scourge Lockdown: Sneer at me all you like. I like this story and am NOT ashamed of it. I actually felt sorry for Scourge in this arc and I don't regret it at all. Scourge deserves better than being beaten up by dumb inmates. Anyway, the story was well-told with some good build-up for the climax, neat character moments and back stories for the Destructix, amazing artwork and some fun references and funny moments. I DARE you to hate me for this. I FUCKING DARE YOU.
Fractured Mirror: This arc has the most amazing and beautiful artwork the comic has ever received. Plus the story is nice and dark with great character development for Silver, an awesome fight with Enerjak and a fun twist at the end.
Secret Freedom: The teamwork and interactions of the Secret Freedom Fighters make this a great read along with the nice artwork, character moments and Naugus's plan.
Endgame: Ugh...I hate this story. The pacing his abysmal, the artwork is inconsistent, the characters are morons or irrelevant, there's too many things going off at once, the payoff is half-assed at best, the twists are stupid, the dialogue is shit and the impact this story has is very small indeed. Robotnik only got replaced in the end so it's not like his death was that meaningful.
Tossed in Space: The pacing is at a snail's pace, the aliens Sonic meets are ridiculous, the Bem in their entirety make this story one of the worst, nothing really happens and the whole arc feels like relentless padding.
150-151: The story is cliched, there's creepy moments here and there, there's equally as stupid moments and the whole thing comes off as just bad.
Shadow Fall: Oh god is this story boring! I've never felt so bored reading a four-part story arc since Tossed in Space! The plot is predictable, none of the characters except for Eclipse are interesting, the artwork is pretty stale and even stiff-looking at times and nothing interesting happens. Also...Black. Death. Need I say more?
Pirate Plunder Panic: I found myself HATING this story the more I thought about it. It's mostly "meh" thanks to the terrible pacing, the wasted inclusions of Captain Whisker and Johnny and Amy being over-glorified at the expense of Blaze but what made me HATE this story is how it treated Blaze. She is made into an incompetent damsel in distress just to make Captain Metal and Amy look better. Blaze is knocked-out and kidnapped TWICE, Amy saves Blaze from peril TWICE in the story and actually is the one who lands a blow on Captain Metal and not Blaze. Hey, I thought this was Blaze's story, NOT Amy's! Gaah I hate Pirate Plunder Panic! No wonder I did a re-write of this tripe! ONLY redeeming factor is Burning Blaze. THAT'S IT.
Worlds Collide: It somehow has too much plot yet no plot at all. Too much goes on yet it takes too long to happen, Tracy Yardley's artwork for Act 2 is atrocious and there's too many characters to care about. Plus Sonic is downgraded at Mega Man's expense and the plot feels more like it's about Mega Man starring Sonic than Sonic and Mega Man.
25 Years Later: Do I need to explain why this is one of the worst? IT'S BORING! That's why it is.
Iron Dominion: It was a nice long story that had a good pace and some great history, mythology, world-building and character development, strong character moments, great artwork and some fun action scenes. I also liked how it changed the status quo for a time. Yeah it has problems like Espio's heel-turn being wasted and that Khan/Tails scene from 209 being a waste of time but I sincerely believe this is Ian Flynn and indeed Archie Sonic's BEST story ever.
Bold New Moebius: This was a fun story with some good depth, back story and build-up as well as some neat artwork and cool moments. The ending marred it greatly though.
Mecha Sally: This is an arc with everything I love in a story. Dark moments, heartfelt moments, sad moments, awesome moments and the pace was very well-done with a mix of fast and slow moments as well as many interesting things happening. The artwork is sensational for the most part too.
Enerjak Reborn: This arc is the reason why I love Dr. Finitevus. It also has some great artwork, action scenes, heartfelt moments, funny moments and got rid of those goddamn dingoes (I hated them) for good and changed the status quo in some ways too.
Thicker Than Water: Bunnie had some neat character moments in this arc and a nice bit of family revelation and back story for her. The depth of the arc is deeper than the very oil of the Oil Ocean Refinery and Ben Bates's artwork is simply gorgeous. The action scenes are great and of course, the always classic line "Oh dear! I've been thrown with excessive force!"
Babylon Rising: This arc actually made me think the unthinkable...the Babylon Rogues are INTERESTING. It was nice to see how they came together and we get some nice mythology and character moments as well as fantastic artwork and Sonic being tough and bitter like he should be given the shit he's gone through. Sullied only by the Battle Lord being overpowered. Seriously, how the fuck can he beat Naugus in a fight?!?!
Scourge Lockdown: Sneer at me all you like. I like this story and am NOT ashamed of it. I actually felt sorry for Scourge in this arc and I don't regret it at all. Scourge deserves better than being beaten up by dumb inmates. Anyway, the story was well-told with some good build-up for the climax, neat character moments and back stories for the Destructix, amazing artwork and some fun references and funny moments. I DARE you to hate me for this. I FUCKING DARE YOU.
Fractured Mirror: This arc has the most amazing and beautiful artwork the comic has ever received. Plus the story is nice and dark with great character development for Silver, an awesome fight with Enerjak and a fun twist at the end.
Secret Freedom: The teamwork and interactions of the Secret Freedom Fighters make this a great read along with the nice artwork, character moments and Naugus's plan.
Endgame: Ugh...I hate this story. The pacing his abysmal, the artwork is inconsistent, the characters are morons or irrelevant, there's too many things going off at once, the payoff is half-assed at best, the twists are stupid, the dialogue is shit and the impact this story has is very small indeed. Robotnik only got replaced in the end so it's not like his death was that meaningful.
Tossed in Space: The pacing is at a snail's pace, the aliens Sonic meets are ridiculous, the Bem in their entirety make this story one of the worst, nothing really happens and the whole arc feels like relentless padding.
150-151: The story is cliched, there's creepy moments here and there, there's equally as stupid moments and the whole thing comes off as just bad.
Shadow Fall: Oh god is this story boring! I've never felt so bored reading a four-part story arc since Tossed in Space! The plot is predictable, none of the characters except for Eclipse are interesting, the artwork is pretty stale and even stiff-looking at times and nothing interesting happens. Also...Black. Death. Need I say more?
Pirate Plunder Panic: I found myself HATING this story the more I thought about it. It's mostly "meh" thanks to the terrible pacing, the wasted inclusions of Captain Whisker and Johnny and Amy being over-glorified at the expense of Blaze but what made me HATE this story is how it treated Blaze. She is made into an incompetent damsel in distress just to make Captain Metal and Amy look better. Blaze is knocked-out and kidnapped TWICE, Amy saves Blaze from peril TWICE in the story and actually is the one who lands a blow on Captain Metal and not Blaze. Hey, I thought this was Blaze's story, NOT Amy's! Gaah I hate Pirate Plunder Panic! No wonder I did a re-write of this tripe! ONLY redeeming factor is Burning Blaze. THAT'S IT.
Worlds Collide: It somehow has too much plot yet no plot at all. Too much goes on yet it takes too long to happen, Tracy Yardley's artwork for Act 2 is atrocious and there's too many characters to care about. Plus Sonic is downgraded at Mega Man's expense and the plot feels more like it's about Mega Man starring Sonic than Sonic and Mega Man.
25 Years Later: Do I need to explain why this is one of the worst? IT'S BORING! That's why it is.
I asked for two.
You say the inmates in Inside Job are dumb, but they're supposed to be the worst villains in the entire multiverse. The Zone Cops considered stopping them a higher priority than Scourge, Eggman, and Nega. THey've also been in their long enough to acclimatize to the altered gravity and the lack of powers. Of course they can beat Scourge.
You say the inmates in Inside Job are dumb, but they're supposed to be the worst villains in the entire multiverse. The Zone Cops considered stopping them a higher priority than Scourge, Eggman, and Nega. THey've also been in their long enough to acclimatize to the altered gravity and the lack of powers. Of course they can beat Scourge.
Don't care, I wanted to do the full list.
I wasn't questioning them beating Scourge, I was saying he deserved better than this. He should be treated like a king by the inmates, not like dirt. I mean criminals often admire those who commit big crimes. Also Scourge beat them all when he got his collar off so there.
I wasn't questioning them beating Scourge, I was saying he deserved better than this. He should be treated like a king by the inmates, not like dirt. I mean criminals often admire those who commit big crimes. Also Scourge beat them all when he got his collar off so there.
Well, don't ask then.
What "Big crime?" He crossed over into another world a few times, and brought people with him. That's all he did. Sure, he tried to destory two worlds, but criminals have standards. Genocide likely wouldn't wash with them. ANd Scourge beating them was Flynn making the characters and setting bend over backwards to give Scourge the win again. Half the characters seen in the background would have annihilated him. Mephiles, Void, and yes, Mecha Tails spring to mind.
What "Big crime?" He crossed over into another world a few times, and brought people with him. That's all he did. Sure, he tried to destory two worlds, but criminals have standards. Genocide likely wouldn't wash with them. ANd Scourge beating them was Flynn making the characters and setting bend over backwards to give Scourge the win again. Half the characters seen in the background would have annihilated him. Mephiles, Void, and yes, Mecha Tails spring to mind.
Sorry.
Scourge took over his world and can match Sonic Prime in a battle. That deserves good treatment if you ask me. And some criminals are genocidal. And no Scourge beating them wasn't for that reason at all. The other inmates had their collars on still, ergo they're weaker than Scourge since he has no collar on. The collars hinder special abilities and make you slower and weaker. Scourge doesn't have it on, ergo he has the big advantage. So Ian Flynn actually used logic and facts when writing the story, he didn't just glorify Scourge in the climax.
Scourge took over his world and can match Sonic Prime in a battle. That deserves good treatment if you ask me. And some criminals are genocidal. And no Scourge beating them wasn't for that reason at all. The other inmates had their collars on still, ergo they're weaker than Scourge since he has no collar on. The collars hinder special abilities and make you slower and weaker. Scourge doesn't have it on, ergo he has the big advantage. So Ian Flynn actually used logic and facts when writing the story, he didn't just glorify Scourge in the climax.
And why would people who are threats to the multiverse care about that?
I was labouring under the impression that the collars all came off. OKay, that works a little better. So he can beat up people with no powers. THat's not impressive at all.
I'm considering writing a story where one of the alternate Fionas who was murdered between Anna and Fiona turns out to have been the girlfriend of the Mecha Tails who is in the prison (Before he went crazy- she went to Moebius with Miles to escape Mecha Tails). How does that sound?
I was labouring under the impression that the collars all came off. OKay, that works a little better. So he can beat up people with no powers. THat's not impressive at all.
I'm considering writing a story where one of the alternate Fionas who was murdered between Anna and Fiona turns out to have been the girlfriend of the Mecha Tails who is in the prison (Before he went crazy- she went to Moebius with Miles to escape Mecha Tails). How does that sound?
I started reading them when naugus first became king so my favorite story arc is the sonic universe scrambled arc my least favorite is the entire mecha sally story arc.
I could not for the life of me stand the coup d'état with tails parents, sonic was a dick, tails acted illogical because sonic was a dick, and tails parents were completely unpunished for starting a political conspiracy to overthrow the crown. no one ever brings up the fact they were probably brainwashed by the BEM to spread their broken ideologies, which is sad because that would have been more interesting to see.
even if it wasn't the best or a part of the main story per say, I really liked the auto Fiona introduction arc to the tails mini series. I don't really know why, but it is how it is.
even if it wasn't the best or a part of the main story per say, I really liked the auto Fiona introduction arc to the tails mini series. I don't really know why, but it is how it is.
I know, to the point that I'm using such an idea myself at some point.
Yeah, that was pretty good. Gallagher created a better tragic Tails pairing in two issues that Sonic X could in an entire season.
Yeah, that was pretty good. Gallagher created a better tragic Tails pairing in two issues that Sonic X could in an entire season.
Mecha Sally arc. Hands down worst arc ever. Basically, everything between 225 to now. (Except the Secret Freedom Fighters and Mighy's sister, Matilda.)
It was bad, mostly because of legal nonsense. I really am looking forward to "lost hedgehog tails"
Me too. Even though a little part of me thinks Ian should save it for the comics (if he can take back control of it)
I dunno, even without the legal issues, it would have been bad. Frankly, I don't think the legal stuff had any effect on Mecha Sally's effectiveness as a villain, which is one of the biggest problems with the story: She's not a threat, and even if she was, the fact that she's a mindless drone in service of Eggman would render that pretty much moot. Added that her being Sally had exactly one effect on the story: Ken's refusal to harm her, instead of his usual route of "Mercy Kill", otherwise, the story wouldn't have been different if anyone else was the Robian. Bad villain = Bad story.
Least Favorite is a no-brainer. Chaos Knuckles and all the stuff that went with that.
It was boring, it lasted forever, and by the end of it, we got Titan Tails out of the deal. The only interesting thing that came out of the arc is the issue where Knuckles messed with time and we got an OVA adaptation out of it.
Finding a favorite is much more difficult for me. I do say I enjoyed the early stuff and the stuff when Ian first came on board that made it feel like a return to those more fun times. Worlds Collide was neat, despite its flaws. I think a lot of problems with the comic is that there's a lot of build up with not enough pay off. its not just an ian flynn issue, but a lot of arcs kinda petered out and got stupid by the time they were over, or ended far too quickly
It was boring, it lasted forever, and by the end of it, we got Titan Tails out of the deal. The only interesting thing that came out of the arc is the issue where Knuckles messed with time and we got an OVA adaptation out of it.
Finding a favorite is much more difficult for me. I do say I enjoyed the early stuff and the stuff when Ian first came on board that made it feel like a return to those more fun times. Worlds Collide was neat, despite its flaws. I think a lot of problems with the comic is that there's a lot of build up with not enough pay off. its not just an ian flynn issue, but a lot of arcs kinda petered out and got stupid by the time they were over, or ended far too quickly
Oh, canon-sue Knuckles was bad. A fountain of ideas, but bad.
I've heard a lot of people express that view. I can remember, back before 247 dropped, that we were all expecting Mecha Sally to have a disappointing end. And heck, it dates back as far as Other-M: Everything builds, and builds, an builds, and bloats ever wider, and then everyone dies, the end. But, as you said, everyone had this problem.
I've heard a lot of people express that view. I can remember, back before 247 dropped, that we were all expecting Mecha Sally to have a disappointing end. And heck, it dates back as far as Other-M: Everything builds, and builds, an builds, and bloats ever wider, and then everyone dies, the end. But, as you said, everyone had this problem.
Not forgetting that Other-M uses one of the most tired tropes (in my opinion) in fiction writing: Deus Ex Machina arrives in a world that's gone to hell in a handbasket (another dimension/alternate timeline, etc.) with a barely successful resistance on the verge of annihilation, in-depth build up of supporting characters in said resistance, Deus Ex turns it all around and completely screws over/hampers the machinations of the main enemy, a sadistic/outright insane lieutenant of the main antagonist does the impossible and finds the secret resistance base (which eluded the superiorly intelligent main villain for a LONG time) before burning it/blowing it up and killing the majority of these well-developed secondary protagonists, and there's absolutely nothing the main hero can do (sometimes because he isn't even there to help), and the surviving heroes say "There's nothing you could have done". In other words, a load of BULLSHIT.
It ruined Other-M for me, it almost ruined Homefront for me, and it nearly spoiled Wolfenstein: The New Order for me. Period.
It ruined Other-M for me, it almost ruined Homefront for me, and it nearly spoiled Wolfenstein: The New Order for me. Period.
I wasn't talking about Flynn, i was talking in general
Oh hey, Naugus seems liek a cool villain! Oh wait, he's gone.
Oh, Eggman can roboticize with a touch, how are they gonna stop him? oh aliens.
Oh, how are they going to deal with the robians? oh, aliens...
There were a lot of things like that. if Ian developed a love for build up, I wouldn't be surprised if he picked it up from Archie!
Oh hey, Naugus seems liek a cool villain! Oh wait, he's gone.
Oh, Eggman can roboticize with a touch, how are they gonna stop him? oh aliens.
Oh, how are they going to deal with the robians? oh, aliens...
There were a lot of things like that. if Ian developed a love for build up, I wouldn't be surprised if he picked it up from Archie!
I know.
Yup.
I think he should have kept that ability. It made him more threatening. Current Eggman-as-legitimate-threat is just riddled with narm to me.
Further proving my point that aliens and Sonic stories rarely mix well.
At this point, I'm of the opinion that all the Archie writers were about equal. My vitriol towards Flynn's work is more born out of how his stories simply annoy me more, whereas his predecessors were simply banal a lot of the time. ANd he's current.
Yup.
I think he should have kept that ability. It made him more threatening. Current Eggman-as-legitimate-threat is just riddled with narm to me.
Further proving my point that aliens and Sonic stories rarely mix well.At this point, I'm of the opinion that all the Archie writers were about equal. My vitriol towards Flynn's work is more born out of how his stories simply annoy me more, whereas his predecessors were simply banal a lot of the time. ANd he's current.
Ian's problem is that he's putting it so much in the right direction that when he does something wrong its more "what are you doing!?' instead of "oh its just Penders being penders"
Also aliens can work in a Sonic story. Deadly Six?
Also aliens can work in a Sonic story. Deadly Six?
That would be a good way to sum it up. When he's good, it's pretty damn good. When it's bad... FINO.
I said that they rarely mix well, not that they don't at all. ANd I see your Zeti and raise you one Black Arms, one Metarex, one Xorda, and one Bem.
I said that they rarely mix well, not that they don't at all. ANd I see your Zeti and raise you one Black Arms, one Metarex, one Xorda, and one Bem.
if you are interested in supporting me and helping me produce more content while getting special perks, please check my Patreon!
Your comment.
Do know, that even though being ignored feels very personal it's hardly ever personal at all! 
Your comment(s) gets ignored.
On the following days, draw/write your OTP:
.. ofcourse. 
*wink *wink ):origin()/pre06/6cfc/th/pre/i/2013/330/2/e/dust_by_tituslunter-d6vq3p3.jpg)
:origin()/pre08/aee9/th/pre/i/2013/341/c/e/colony_by_tituslunter-d6x2gnw.png)
24 hr advance, Patreons only!
:origin()/pre01/c498/th/pre/f/2015/203/7/8/_closed__cakie__39_by_sarilain-d92e0f5.png)
